Susan J. Erenrich, Oral History

 

Recorded: April 24, 2024 

Interviewed by: Elizabeth Campion

Transcribed by the Kent State University Research & Evaluation Bureau

 

 

[Interviewer]: This is Liz Campion, May 4 Archivist, speaking on Wednesday, April 24th, 2024. As part of the Kent State Shootings Oral History Project, we are recording an interview over the telephone today. [00:00:14] Could you please state your name for the recording?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Susie Erenrich.

 

[Interviewer]: Thank you, Susie. I would like to begin with some brief information about your background so we can get to know you a little bit better. [00:00:26] Could you tell us where you were born and where you grew up?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Yes, I was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And I was there through my eighteenth birthday until I came to Kent State in 1975 in the fall.

 

[Interviewer]: Thank you. [00:00:44] And what was your occupation in 1970, or were you a high school student?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: I was a [junior] high school student in 1970.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:00:53] And what was your age in 1970?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: My math is not very good. Right now, I’m sixty-seven, so you can calculate.

 

[Interviewer]: Okay, thank you. [00:01:07] As a [junior] high school student, how did you view the protests and the Vietnam War?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: I actually went to my first protest against the war when I was eleven. My brother is six and a half years older than me, and his lottery number was number 72. He never went to Vietnam, but I was very aware of the Vietnam War. In fact, I protested when I was in school, refused to salute the flag, and to do other things. But I did attend [editor’s clarification: attend her first demonstration against the war], it was in Market Square, Pittsburgh, and that was really my introduction to anti-war[EBG1] , Vietnam War protests.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:01:50] What are your memories from the days of the shootings, Monday, May 4, 1970?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: It was front-page news. I was very aware of it. And also, somebody who was a nephew to my uncle, not related to me, through marriage, was very good friends with Allison Krause. So, I was very aware of what happened on May 4th, 1970. In fact, when I was choosing schools for my undergraduate degree, I knew I was going to be a sociology major, and I chose Kent State mostly because I knew there would be a lot of activism on campus, and because of the shootings. That’s why I came to Kent. I applied to three schools. And it was also closest to my parents. My mother was very sick with emphysema at the time. And so, I wanted to have the opportunity to go back and forth. And it was closer than the other two schools. But I really chose Kent because of the activism.

 

[Interviewer]: Well, you beat me to the next question. [00:02:59] So, can you—

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Sorry about that.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:03:01] Can you tell me again what year you started at Kent State University?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Yeah, I started after the civil trial, in the fall of 1975. And as soon as I got there, there was a new student group forming called The May 4th Task Force, and I was a founding member. The other founding members were three of the wounded students, Robbie Stamps, Alan Canfora, and Dean Kahler.

 

[Interviewer]: Thank you for that. [00:03:30] Were your friends or family members concerned or reluctant about you attending Kent State years after the shootings took place?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Not at all. They were happy that I was going to be closer to home.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:03:44] How politically involved or active would you describe yourself throughout your years at Kent State?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: I was very active with the May 4 Task Force, helped set up the commemorations, sat at tables, dealt with educational forums. I lived with, shared a house with Dean Kahler and Valerie Manning for a while, was very close to all of the wounded students, actually. So, they were family to me, they were like my big brothers. I was also close with many of the family members, especially the Scheuers. Martin and Sarah Scheuer were very close to me. In fact, the first time Sarah saw me, she cried. Sorry, I’m getting emotional now because she thought I looked too much like Sandy. And then, we became very close. In fact, they had a picture of me that sat on the mantel until both of them passed away.

 

[Interviewer]: You mentioned the founding of The May 4 Task Force, [00:04:53] can you describe how that came to be and how that was formed between you and those wounded students?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Well, I really can’t talk about the formation. That would be for somebody else to talk about it because I was a hot-to-trot freshman and very excited to be part of that community, the May 4 community, which actually turned into a May 4 movement. But that’s actually for other people to answer because I started attending the meetings when I was new, but the formation of the group came before. And the reason why the May 4 Task Force happened was because the university thought enough after the civil trial of Kent State and they wanted to wash their hands of it. And this [editor’s clarification: the creation of the Task Force] was to make sure that justice was served and the memory of Kent, what happened on May 4th, 1970, would never happen again. So, it was an educational forum as well as an activist forum.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:06:02] Can you describe what the environment was like on campus, specifically regarding the Gym Annex controversy, which is also known as Tent City?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Yes. I was part of Tent City. I did not get arrested because I was working for CETA, the Comprehensive Employment Training Act. I was a supervisor for the youth program, the summer youth program. But I did stay at Tent City a lot. I was actually living with Val [Valerie Manning] and Dean [Dean Kahler] at the time, and we spent evenings at Tent City. It was really a great community. It happened after one of the trustees’ meetings where they were going to move forward with the gym. And Ken Hammond and a few other people threw a tent on the ground when we were marching around campus [chanting], “Long live the spirit of Kent and Jackson State,” and Tent City started.

 

And we had great support from members of the community, especially the Kent Community Project, which involved the record store, the Peaceable Kingdom Bakery, and the natural foods store. It was a worker’s collective. And Donaldine [McGriffin], who ran the bakery, used to bring food up. We made our decisions by consensus, which is very difficult to do, but it was at the start of Tent City. And it was two months of people camping on the hill. And the graduation— Dean Kahler graduated in the summer of 1977—people who were graduating wore pagodas on their caps, if memory serves me correctly, back to 1977. So, as a community, we were really together. We had rules for the community. No drinking, a lot of other rules you can find elsewhere with the [May 4 Coalition] demands. And also during the commemoration—I remember it was a very rainy day on May 4th, 1977—William Kunstler, the attorney, spoke, and Ron Kovic gave a very powerful speech where he rolled his wheelchair over to Dean [Kahler] and they hugged each other. And they all were against the building of the Gym Annex. And there was a demonstration after that where we took over the Administration Building. And as they say, the rest is history.

 

[Interviewer]: What a powerful moment, to witness that. [00:09:02] Can you describe to us police presence or any university administrative response to Tent City?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Well, I was younger than most of the people. Plus, I was working. I didn’t have the luxury to be there 24/7, even though I was there a lot. So, that’s really for other people to answer. I remember, during the Administration Building takeover, Dennis Carey mediating what was happening in the building. Dennis Carey was the director of the Center for Peaceful Change, now the Conflict Studies Program—it left Stopher Hall and went over to, where is it now? Bowman Hall. I was in the know because I was very close with the wounded students, but I wasn’t in the know on a lot of other issues. So, that’s more for other people to answer, those questions.

 

[Interviewer]: Okay, right. To go back a little bit, [00:10:22] do you recall how you learned about the university’s plans to build the Gym Annex? And what was your response to that?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: I actually learned on May 4th, 1977, when most of the speeches were centered around the building of the gym.

 

[Interviewer]: Okay. [00:10:43] During your time as a student, I know you mentioned you attended that commemoration, can you recall your memories from attending those earlier commemorations, so shortly after the shootings took place?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Well, the earlier commemorations, before 1976, I wasn’t there because I got there in the fall of 1975. I remember my first commemoration. I remember being part of the Task Force, organizing, helping to organize that commemoration. It was out on The Commons. It was a cool, sunny day. And I felt proud to be part of the May 4th Task Force, to be part of that history, especially since I had become very close friends with the eyewitnesses to the shootings. So, and actually my history with May 4th, because of my publications and everything else, is almost fifty years. This is my forty-ninth year, next year will be fifty years that I’ve been part of the May 4th community.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:11:52] Have you attended any commemorations in recent years?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Oh, yes. Before COVID, I was coming to almost all of them. There were several years that I didn’t attend. My last one was 2019. My book, The Cost of Freedom: Voicing a Movement after Kent State 1970, it was released for the 50th anniversary and, because of COVID, we didn’t really have a commemoration. It was online that year. So, I haven’t been back since. I was going to come this year, but transportation is a little difficult for me because my husband passed away a year ago and he always drove, and I don’t have a driver’s license. So, I’m definitely coming in 2025 to mark my 50th anniversary of being involved with the May 4th Task Force and the movement for fifty years.

 

[Interviewer]: Great. I’m sure a lot of your colleagues and friends will look forward to seeing you, especially that May 4 community. [00:12:59] In the recent commemorations that you have attended, pre-COVID, were there any parallels between the earlier years that you attended versus the more recent years? Can you draw on those memories? Were there any differences? Did you notice anything, similarities, differences? Any memories you have from either of those?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: I mean, in the beginning, it was about justice. It was about cancellation of classes. It was about move the gym. It was about the scaled-down memorial because it was never fully built. It was about having it as a historical landmark, which was really unveiled, I believe, in 2018. I attended that ceremony with other people from, I believe that was the year that people from Orangeburg, from the Orangeburg Massacre that happened on February 8th, 1968, were there.

 

I think now it’s about—a lot of us are getting older. I was the baby. A lot of these folks are six, seven, eight, and more years older than me. A lot of people are passing on. So, it’s about friendship and love and community. So, people still are concerned and care. We’ve never heard the truth about what actually happened on May 4th, 1970, but for a lot of us, now, it’s also about reunion. So, I noticed, with age, we’re changing. We still care. We’re still involved. But I think that it’s a different feeling of getting together with people not knowing if you’re ever going to see people again after a particular commemoration. Three of the wounded students are gone.

 

[Interviewer]: Yeah. I’m glad you mentioned the word “reunion.” We’ve heard that a lot from prior people participating in this, and I think it’s important. The aspect of reunion and reflecting with those people that you’ve shared this important piece of our history. Fast-forwarding a little bit, [00:15:42] Can you describe how you got involved in working on the journal Kent and Jackson State, a special issue of Vietnam Generation, 1970 to 1990?  

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Yes. It was quite by accident. My late husband was working at the Holocaust Museum before the museum was open to the public. He was working with the Learning Center doing map research and cartography. And there was a woman there by the name of Kali Tal, she had just graduated with her PhD from Yale, and she had a journal called Vietnam Generation. And the two of them happened to be talking one afternoon, and she said, “Well, would she want to do a special edition for Kent and Jackson State, 1970 to 1990?” This was in 1989. And so, we met, she came over to our apartment. And our first introduction—we went to a Joan Baez concert, and it was right after Tiananmen Square. And we hit it off. And I said, “I will only do it if it’s not from a scholarly perspective.” Some of these people are scholars, but I said, “It has to be eyewitness testimony, first-person narrative, and that’s the only way I’ll do it.” So, it was quite by accident, and I had, I believe, five or six months to rally all the participants that were in the book. I had never been to Mississippi at the time. I didn’t know a lot of the players. So, I was actually disappointed that I only had four people from Jackson State and the rest were [from] Kent State.

 

It was a huge hit. She [Kali Tal] was there with books. The first one had a white cover, which I thought it should have stayed a white cover, instead of her usual yellow cover, but it was a special commemorative anthology. The book flew like hotcakes. Tom Grace, I remember this very well, stood there at the podium when he was speaking and said that I should be very proud of the book. And I found it a little disconcerting because, here again, there was underrepresentation from Jackson State. So, the next year, I happened to be working on a second master’s degree in Conflict Analysis and Resolution. And I was doing an independent study on the music of the Civil Rights Movement, and I came across this article. Broadside Magazine was a topical [song] magazine, started by Pete Seeger, Sis Cunningham, and Gordon Friesen, from 1962 to 1988. And I found this article by Bob Cohen, who was the director of the Mississippi Caravan of Music, and they were talking about 1964 Freedom Summer. This is the 60th anniversary of Mississippi Freedom Summer, where three civil rights workers, Goodman, Schwerner, and Chaney, lost their lives. And I said, “Well, I had so much fun doing Kent and Jackson State, maybe I should dedicate an entire anthology to the Mississippi Civil Rights Movement.”

 

So, I spent the next eight years of my life tracking down people who were involved. And starting with Mamie Till-Mobley, the mother of Emmett Till, going up through Freedom Summer. The book is a 560-page book, 8 ½ x 11”. It first came out in 1999, published through Black Belt Press. Then a reprint was done through NewSouth Books, now University of Georgia Press, in November of 2021. There were about ninety participants. There was also a two-CD set that went along with that particular book. The two-CD set came out for the 30th anniversary of Freedom Summer. I was naïve to think that they would come out at the same time. For some reason, getting the mechanical licenses for the CD was easier than dealing with all the people.

 

So, that’s how I started comparing. That’s where I really learned about the Mississippi [Civil Rights] Movement and that Jackson State was not an isolated incident. It was a long racist history perpetuated by the state against its Black citizenry. And then—I might as well throw it all together—then I decided that, when I went to the Kent State University Press, I was actually going to do an anthology with Orangeburg, Kent, and Jackson State together. And the book was way too big, so Kent State University only wanted to deal with—the University Press—with Kent State. So, I did the next anthology, which was The Cost of Freedom: Voicing a Movement after Kent State 1970, that came out for the 50^th anniversary. And now, I’m working on an anthology, Too Many Martyrs: Student Massacres at Orangeburg, Kent, and Jackson State During the Vietnam War Era, which, hopefully, is coming out in 2025. And that deals more specifically with everything that I’ve collected for the past twenty years on Orangeburg and Jackson State, with Kent thrown in to have some perspective. So, that’s a long-winded answer to your question.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:21:43] In regards to your work on Kent and Jackson State, and The Cost of Freedom, was anyone hesitant in participating or sharing their narratives with you?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: No. No, because after I did Kent and Jackson State: 1970 to 1990, first of all, people knew me, the people from Kent. I was part of the May 4 family. So, the Mississippi book was a little more difficult because, when I was creating it, starting in 1992, I started a nonprofit organization just so I could do these anthologies and these projects, called the Cultural Center for Social Change. And so, what I would do is, I would send Kent and Jackson State: 1970 to 1990 because I had bought up the collection, I would send a free book to all my potential participants. Julian Bond was my mentor. I met him through Kent State, especially when he came in 1988. And if people had questions about me, they would call him to see if I was okay and not somebody that was going to exploit the movement.

 

See, this is all a labor of love for me. I don’t get paid for this. Other people who do books on these topics, they get paid, and I feel it’s a form of exploitation because the participants that are entrusting them with their most precious memories and they [editor’s clarification: the participants] don’t get paid. So, I specifically set it up so it would be, really, a platform for popular education, a form of education coined by Paulo Freire, but actually going back to, I believe, the Danes, and Highlander Folk School, which is now Highlander Education and Research Center. So, if people were reluctant—and the book took a lot longer than I thought. I mean, some people were upset, especially people who I had their photographs for eight years, were wondering when this book is coming out. And then, I would go to Julian [Bond] because Julian recommended the publisher. I had actually sent the table of contents to, I believe, it was 191 prospective publishers. And they wanted to mess around with people’s narratives, and I said no. No revision, no censorship, it is what it is, except that I would work with the authors to make their writing better. And so, Randall Williams said yes. He was Black Belt Press at the time, then he started his own: NewSouth Books. He liked the idea, but it was the largest book he had ever done. And so, the reluctance came from that.

 

And then, they [editor’s clarification: the participants] would call Julian [Bond], and then Julian would say, “She’s a good soul.” So, then they would do it. Sometimes it took a long time because it was painful. I mean, people died, across the spectrum, from not only Kent and Jackson State but the whole Mississippi [Civil Rights] Movement, Emmett Till’s mother, the mother of James Chaney, also Carolyn Goodman. Ben Chaney also became a good friend of mine, the brother of James Chaney. So, I mean, doing this work takes time. I say nobody in their right mind would do this work, but I happen to be a process person. So, I love every minute of it. I love the one-on-one because a movement is a movement, and a lot of people were talking, sometimes at the same time, at each other. In order to do this, it’s a one-on-one relationship that I establish with each person. So, because of that, they gained my trust. And then, it’s a back-and-forth. I did not have computer technology up until 1999. The reason I got my first computer was because Julian Bond threatened never to participate in another project again unless I got a computer. And that was motivation for me to go get a computer. But I actually, once a month, would handwrite notes to every single participant for eight years. I had an electric typewriter, and my pen, and the telephone. And then, I graduated to computer technology.

 

So, to answer your question about hesitating, I mean, yeah, people had different things going on in their lives, but I’m really lucky. It’s because these anthologies, these books are not about me, they’re about the people. And I never put myself in front of the work, which is why people learn to participate and respect me. And it was a reciprocal type of relationship.

 

[Interviewer]: Well, thank you so much for sharing the process and how you gathered those voices. It’s remarkable how you’ve been able to connect with these really powerful and impactful voices. I’m curious, [00:27:11] can you talk about if there was an emotional toll on you during this process? I mean, in speaking with so many people that have been impacted so greatly by tragedy, I imagine the repetitiveness in hearing those really emotionally charging voices that has to take some sort of toll. And how did you handle that?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Well, as you know, this is the second time I’ve gotten emotional during this interview. It’s emotional. I mean, and a lot of my emotion right now comes from, with over a hundred people that were involved in the Mississippi project, more than sixty of them have died.  So, that’s emotional. My friends at Kent, many of them have died. So, that’s sad for me because they’re my brothers and sisters, and I love them so.

 

[Interviewer]: And again, it’s that importance of community. Yeah. [00:28:17] Can you describe the impact your research related to the Kent State Shootings has had on you both professionally and personally?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Well, I can’t really speak for other people. I can only speak for myself. I mean, I look at Kent State, for me, as a critical juncture. If I make a drawing of critical junctures in my life, it really stems from Kent State. And the 1970 to 1990 anthology Kent and Jackson State, that really set me on a path that I’ve been on ever since. When I went to get my PhD in Leadership and Change, I had a foundation for what it was that I was actually doing. Where I didn’t necessarily [beforehand]—I mean, yes, I had two master’s degrees when I did the first two books, but I didn’t really put it all together until I joined the PhD program at Antioch [University] and I was writing my doctoral dissertation. Then it all kind of came together. It’s like, Oh, this is what I’ve been doing for the past thirty, forty years. And it’s not only, I mean, I’ve also had performances of Kent in 2020 by Terry Leonino, who was an eyewitness, and Greg Artzner, who was a townie at the time, we’ve been collaborating for many years—I’m a former dancer—on different performances that we’ve done. We were supposed to have a performance, Ken Hammond, who wrote the foreword to the book, The Cost of Freedom: Voicing a Movement After Kent State: 1970[-1990], who also has an article on Tiananmen Square and in Kent and Jackson State: 1970 to 1990. We were all supposed to be on the Kent Stage, and because of COVID, we had to cancel the performance. But what we did was, Terry and Greg and I set up a Zoom. And I sent them the material that they should use. I wrote the stories; they sang the music. So, we actually had it online. People can still find it on YouTube. But we’ve done many performances since, at People’s Voice Cafe, where I served on the booking committee for many years and which is an all-volunteer collective, now a nonprofit in New York City, where another woman and I did the bookings for about, just the two of us, for ten years. And now, I’m [still] on the booking committee. And we had many performances there about different things that happened in the Sixties, but in particular, a couple performances about the shootings at Kent and Jackson State.

 

So, it’s morphed into a lot of different media presentations throughout the fifty-year history. My fifty-year history. For them, almost fifty-five because as I said, Terry Leonino was an eyewitness and Greg was a townie, and they’ve been writing songs ever since. You might hear some of their songs in the May 4th collection, CD collection that was released many years ago. I’ve also done radio shows, which I post around May 4th and around May 15th, when Jackson State happened. I had a radio program called Wasn’t That A Time: Stories and Songs That Moved the Nation for five years on community radio WERA-96.7 FM, in Arlington, Virginia, where I did many programs on Kent and Jackson State. I did programs on Orangeburg, and after Alan Canfora passed away, I did a program specifically for him. So, Kent has really been at the forefront of everything that I’ve done. And when I examine community, because I worked many years with SNCC, decades now, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, there is a parallel between the community of Kent, who were involved with the May 4th movement, and the community of SNCC, who’s actually been together for more than sixty years. So, it’s fascinating to me how that works.

 

[Interviewer]: It’s become apparent in our conversation that activism was really important to you. [00:33:08] Can you describe what your role in activism is today?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Oh, I’ve been an activist all my life. When I was a young girl, unfortunately, I was too young before my grandmother passed away, but both sets of grandparents are from Hungary. And my grandmother on my mother’s side, her parents were murdered in Auschwitz.

So, there was a connection right there. And when Vietnam happened, I was hanging out with a lot of people. I was volunteering at a place called Youth City near the Hill District. And so, by the time I came to Kent, if you could call it seasoned, I was already seasoned because I was already involved in a lot of work. Most of my friends were always older than me, they were draft age. So, my activism has continued. A lot of my activism now, I have my PhD, my dissertation was on artists creating dangerously for social change. So, I look very much at the arts and how it’s not just an afterthought, but they actually are a significant part of movements, especially the Civil Rights Movement, [it was] a singing movement, the IWW, Industrial Workers of the World, otherwise known as the “Wobblies.” Music: Joe Hill and the “Wobblies”—music again there. Theater: whether it’s in Palestine with the Jenin [Freedom] Theatre—

 

So, now, I’ve been doing collections on—the first one came out in 2017—on grassroots leadership and the arts for social change. There’s a series, I have a monthly column, which we’re not sure if it’s monthly anymore, but it’s been for over five years. I think it started in 2018, called The Grassroots Leadership & the Arts for Social Change Corner, where people submitted fantastic articles for publication, which is now—the material is so good that we turned it into a series of primers called A Grassroots Leadership and Arts for Social Change Primer for Educators, Organizers, Activists, and Rabble-Rousers. Volume one came out in June of 2022. Volume two, which is specifically on music, is coming out in 2024, before—in the fall sometime. Hopefully before, but definitely by December [editor’s clarification: currently anticipated in the spring of 2025]. Volume three is going to be on theater and dance. And volume four is going to be on exhibitions. So, my activism has continued in a lot of different ways, but I feel that the arts is a way to break down barriers and to perpetuate ideas so that it emotionally gets to people’s hearts.

 

[Interviewer]: Absolutely. [00:36:30] Is there anything you’d like to share about how these experiences you’ve mentioned today have affected your life over the years?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Well, my life’s been extremely nontraditional. The work takes years, but I love every minute of it. Hopefully, I have more wisdom than when I started these projects in 1989, but I’m basically the same person with more degrees, a better foundation, and hopefully a little more knowledge.

 

[Interviewer]: Thank you for sharing that. [00:37:12] Is there anything else you’d like to talk about that we haven’t covered today?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: I don’t know. Can you think of anything?

 

[Interviewer]: I think you covered a lot of incredible experiences today.

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Well, I hope that it was okay and that it can be comprehended by people who are listening and reading the transcript.

 

[Interviewer]: Well, on behalf of Special Collections and Archives, I want to thank you, Susie, for your participation today. We really appreciate you sharing your story.

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Well, thank you for inviting me, or I should say thank you, Larry Durkalski, for recommending me!

 

[Interviewer]: Thank you. I’m going to end the recording now, okay?

 

[Susie Erenrich]: Okay.

 

[End of interview]

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