Lowell Zurbuch, Oral History

Recorded October 17, 2007
Interviewed by Craig Simpson
Transcribed by Robin Katz

Note: This transcript includes geo-references to locations that are discussed in the oral history. Geographical names linked in the transcript will open in a new window or tab that takes you to that location information and map in the Mapping May 4 project. To request a transcript without geo-reference links included, please contact Kent State University Special Collections & Archives.

[Interviewer]: Good morning, my name is Craig Simpson and the date is October 17, 2007. We are conducting a May 4 Oral History interview today for the May 4 Oral History Project and could you please state your name?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: First name's Lowell L-o-w-e-l-l, middle initial is S and the spelling on my last name is Z-u-r-b-u-c-h. It's pronounced "Zerbaw," but it's--wouldn't--doesn't seem as though that's the way to pronounce it, but it is.

[Interviewer]: Okay, where were you born?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: In Akron, Ohio.

[Interviewer]: When did you first come to Kent State?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: As a student, or as a faculty member?

[Interviewer]: Were you here as a student?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: Yes, I was.

[Interviewer]: When were you here as a student?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: I worked for a while, but I started here in 1960 and my bachelor's degree was awarded 1964, then I taught for several years, and then came back and got a master's degree in '67 and then was invited to join the faculty in '67, so I joined the faculty in 1967 and I've been there ever since, so this means this is the completion of my fortieth year on the faculty, so--

[Interviewer]: And which department do you teach in?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: I'm in the College of Technology.

[Interviewer]: What made you decide to come to Kent State?

[Lowell Zurbuch]:As a student or as a faculty member?

[Interviewer]: As a student.

[Lowell Zurbuch]: Well, I don't know that I researched it as well as people might do today. When I interview students, I--prospective students--I'll say to them, "You know, you got a little assignment when you're done, give your mom and dad a hug" because a lot of people just arrive at a campus sort of accidentally and they're dropped off and they don't really research it. But for myself, it was a, I think, matter of locale and perhaps friends going here, I don't know that I researched it, I just was very fortuitous, so--

[Interviewer]: How would you describe Kent State prior to the events of 1970?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: There's a lot of indices that that one could apply to. I can think of the curriculum, the nature of the town, I can think of the student body--

[Interviewer]: What was the nature of the town like?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: Well, I think maybe a mixture of some appreciation for having the university in its midst and then there's always this town-gown confrontation of some people and that continues to today, of people irritated about behavior of students and pettiness and things of that sort and yet the reality is that it's been a real blessing to this community. I'm not sure it's always appreciated, I think we need to work more on improving the dialogue between the university and, and its students and the townspeople. I think there's a reasonable amount of harmony, I'd like--I think it could be improved. As far as the answer to your question, I don't know--at that point in time, the university was going through such enormous growth of expansion. During the period of time that I've been here to--I don't even have the numbers off the top of my head, but there's somewhere in the vicinity of 25,000 on campus, something of that sort. Well, it was nowhere near that, and so there was a lot of building that was going on at that time, and the influence of the governor, and the idea of having access to a university not so far from home, and the creation of regional campuses, and much of that was going on, so it was a rather exciting time. A lot of change.

[Interviewer]: What was the student body like through the 1960s?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: I think it was perhaps a bit caught up in the spirit of the '60s, of the freedom of going out of--it's an interesting time frame for myself, of the aftermath of World War II and the '50s, and then the questioning of authority in the '60s and the sense of freedom and things of that sort. I think the rapport between the faculty and the students was rather good. I think there was a social consciousness of students at that time that I don't see as nearly as much today. I think people are a little bit more career-oriented and things of that sort, but I think there was more of an altruistic notion of the ethical right thing and the concern--[emancipation] of women that was long overdue--it never has been acheived, but, I think we were asking some important questions right then. And then the questioning of the war, of Vietnam, and it raised a lot of questions, so it was a time of challenge. I don't know that there was any adversarial relationship between the community--I mean, I think this was not unique to this campus, I think it was national, as far as wholesale questioning.

[Interviewer]: What memories do you have of the event on May 4, and you can start wherever you like, I guess if you wanted to start a few days beforehand--

[Lowell Zurbuch]: Well, I was in my third year on the faculty at that point in time I was an instructor--Instructor-rank--and not all that much older than the students, really, when you think about it. I believe I was probably twenty-five or twenty-six years old, and, thinking back now, I was awfully fortunate to be a full-time faculty member so young, but--I knew about the turmoil, I was reading about it. At the time I was living in Akron, and so I wasn't living in the community and yet I was here daily and I was upset and irritated about the behavior of the students of--I think my personal orientation was probably reasonably conservative and I thought the disrespect for authority was, inappropriate, I was disappointed in the students, but to tell you the truth, over time I have probably made a 180 on that of the awakening in myself that maybe the students saw something that I wasn't seeing. I recall very clearly arriving on campus the morning of May 4th and seeing a tank or armored vehicle--I guess it was armored vehicle--at the intersection of Summit and Lincoln street. And the feeling of an armed camp--like, I did not like it--it was my campus, I didn't like to see this, it was upsetting--like, [I thought], What is going on here? I went into my building and--I've got some strange twist to this story, and that's why I spoke to you several weeks ago, I think I have some interesting perspectives of some bizarre events that I was caught up in.

I was teaching in my building--at least I was in my building, I can't recall whether I had a class at that time, but I was in my building and was not outside until at noon-time a colleague of mine, Richard Koelker, he is a bit older than I and had been an electric engineer at, at that time Goodyear Aerospace and had either retired or resigned and came to join our faculty and he and I joined the faculty in '67, so each of us were--we were in our third year on the faculty here. And we shared an office area, so it was lunchtime and he said, "Let's go to lunch." Well, at that point in time, the, uh, the Hub, was what now is Oscar Ritchie Hall, which is being renovated at this moment. And that was the faculty dining area because there was no Student Center as we have now on campus. And so we were walking from Van Deusen across to what you would know as Oscar Ritchie, to me at that time it was the Hub--the Faculty-Student Union, is I think is what it was called. The faculty had a dining area on the second floor. Well, our path took us across that little driveway between the heat plant and Oscar Ritchie and in the immediate foreground was the burnt-out South Hall--I believe--is that correct? South Hall? There was a West Hall, South Hall, whatever the one was that was burnt down. It was smoldering and, and, uh, I had a view out across The Commons. And it was sort of a sense of frivolity that students were being chased around and throwing tear gas canisters and it was--much of it looked to be in jest, and I--I--I don't know that I really appreciated it--I was taken back by the silliness of it all--on both parts, both groups. And so I'm watching a Jeep running around, and the bullhorn, and the students running around and sort of a party atmosphere, frankly. It appeared that way, I--it wasn't that at all, but it appeared that way. And, uh, there are always the hangers-on who perhaps are not caught up in the real meaning of the conflict of, "You're on our campus, get off our campus, and we protest May 4th." Excuse me.

The unique bizarre event occurred moments later because as we walked across they--the Guard--had positioned soldiers and they were basically the same age as our students, when you think about it--eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old. And they, as I recall, had just come from a truck strike and so they were probably pretty tired to begin with and so here they are on campus, in effect, competing with people their same age, when you think about it. So here was a young Guardsmen standing there with a rifle and fixed bayonet and my friend Richard walked up to him and said--and this is the thing I have to make really clear to you because I would not want this recorded incorrectly and misconstrued and I've been very hesitant to say anything about this because I knew people would seize on it, but, the irony of it is that Dick said to this Guardsman, "Hey, shoot one of them for me, will ya?" And the Guardsman says, "Yes, sir, I will." Well, they were both smiling and laughing as this was happening and then moments later, it occurred. And--I have not said anything about this for all this period of time because I knew those people with a certain social agenda would misconstrue and take it for what I knew to be not at all a conspiracy. If there's a conspiracy it wasn't from that moment, I'll tell you that.

[Interviewer]: It was just in the same spirit of frivolity?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: It was, absolutely. And, I was a little bit taken back by what Dick said, but on the other hand, hey, I'm twenty-six years old or whatever, and we're just sort of joking around. And, we went on over to eat and we had our lunch, Richard and I, and then came back the same way. Well, now we're looking out across the campus and the events are heating up. And, there's another part to my story that's sort of unique and that is that we had just gotten a grant from the Society of Manufacturing Engineers to purchase a--at the time--a state-of-the-art video recorder. And, it was a battery pack--I think I still have it locked up in one of the closets, but I mean here is the technology of 1970 and here we are 2007, so it was far clums[ier] by our standards today but at the time it was state of the art and it had a battery pack and you normally couldn't record at that time--I mean, videotape was a new technology and so here I have this Sony unit and I was using it to go out to companies to videotape operations, videotape students teaching, and all sorts of things. And somebody had said to me at that time, "Hey, Lowell, why don't you get the videorecorder and film this?" And I think my response was, I don't want to film this junk. I just didn't see the point of it, I had no sense of what was to about--what was about to unfold. Had I done it, I think I would have been Kent State's version of Abraham Zapruder who filmed Kennedy's assassination. But I chose not to, just, like, I didn't want to bother, I just--never sensing at all what had happened.

In any event, I--and I'm a little bit unsure of this, because you're recalling a memory that's going back many years, of course--but I remember seeing the Guard standing up there--it was kind of a silly game, if you will. But I recall the Guard standing up there, and I believe I saw them with the guns pointed, but I have to be careful about that because I'm not sure that my view [from the Student Union] would have been blocked by Taylor Hall or not, but to the best of my memory, I think I saw them. And I heard the guns going off, and--as a kid I was a hunter, I--it's a strange thing, for the longest time I was, just--I found guns to be so a[b]horrent. I, I just--after this event--it just sickened me, to witness this event. But when the guns went off I didn't know that these were guns going off, because the sounds were ricocheting off of so many buildings that it sounded like somebody probably had some firecrackers, it, it had that sense, it just--I know what a gun sounds like, but it didn't sound normal to me, I didn't think it was a gun, and I don't think emotionally I could accept the idea that they're actually shooting at people. And it--I noticed--I, moments later, there was a Chevrolet Suburban, probably a university vehicle and it went flying up across The Commons up toward the hill toward Taylor Hall. And I remember Glenn, I'm trying to recall his name--Glenn Frank who is, what, a geology or a geography professor--

[Interviewer]: Geology.

[Lowell Zurbuch]: Geology. I remember him trying to persuade students to settle down and things of that sort, I think he was a bit of a hero of the day, quite frankly. And I recall that Suburban flying up through there. It was either an orange or a yellowish color, if I recall. I didn't know what that was about. And at this time, I was pretty close to--it wouldn't mean much to you now, because there was a scales where you could weigh--because at that time they were burning coal for the heat plant and there was a scales there, I'm sure it's been removed, but--it's--you know where the big carved brain is?

[Interviewer]: Yes.

[Lowell Zurbuch]: One of the art professors, sculpture professors, had designed that. In that area [where the big carved brain is now] where I was standing after the shooting occurred. I don't know that we really knew that the shooting had occurred. And I remember this so clearly--several students coming running by and a female and a male and they were both just--I don't want to say soaked in blood, but there was an awful lot of blood. They had not been shot but they were tending to a friend who had been shot, perhaps one who had been killed. And--the gravity of it started to hit me of--[I thought] Hey, something serious has happened. And they were screaming and crying and all that. And then I remember the Jeeps going around, the Governor's declared the campus is closed, you have to leave, and all those sorts of announcements.

And I went back to Van Deusen and, being a bit naive--the gravity, again, didn't settle in--and I thought, you know, this place could be closed for a day or two, never dreaming how long it would be closed. And I went up to my office, which at that time was on the second floor of Van Deusen. I was teaching a drawing class--technical drawing. And I thought, well, you know, I'd better gather the papers because I may not be able to get back to my office to be grading student work for a day or two. So I gathered my papers and I came down the steps and standing in the doorway to the outdoors there were three Guardsmen with fixed bayonets standing there. Sir, you have to leave the building. And I'm not about to argue with somebody with a--they didn't have their guns pointing at me, but they were standing there--and, uh, Yes, I'm on my way out. And I got the hck out of there--[I thought], Yes, I'm on my way out. And I got the heck out of there. And, I remember just a few more things, then maybe it's a matter of questions that you have. Professors have a way of talking ad nauseum, but--

[Interviewer]: This is fine.

[Lowell Zurbuch]: Okay. Well, I remember--I think I, I called my wife and we were living in East Akron, the Ellet area, not far from the expressway and she kept hearing the sirens because there were ambulances that were coming from Akron, coming up to--just a constant stream and I think it was through that phone call that she told me that--there--four had been killed and nine wounded or whatever the number was. And I, I think it was only through that that I knew about it and also we were in Van Deusen and the student television service was broadcasting and making announcements. They were probably over at the Music and Speech Building making these announcements as to what was to happen and what had occurred and giving directions, and in the aftermath of this terrible tragedy. And so I left the campus, I finished teaching my class at a church, I believe it's a Lutheran church on S. Water Street. And, uh, some students lived quite a distant and I found how difficult--the idea of a picture being worth a thousand words--trying to complete a course over the telephone and through mail and things of that sort--

[Interviewer]: That was that summer?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: Yes, that's right. And there was a--the faculty was brought together off-campus, and at the moment I can't recall exactly where it was, but as--we were simply not allowed on campus. I can't recall for sure where we met. But I remember one of the professors in--I thought at the time he was in political science--I was in a swimming program, as I mentioned to you earlier, and I met him through that. I know an awful lot of people on campus because I've been here so long, but even at that time by being in a noontime swimming program you get to meet a lot of folks and, uh, his name escapes me, but--I remember one of the administrators making some comment about, "This is going to cost us a lot in postage" and this fellow, this faculty member was so offended by the insensitivity of--[he said] "You're worried about postage at a moment like this?" And he made some comment about the fact that apparently we've--you've lost your--I don't know if he got personal about it--but, We need to regain our moral compass. And I remember that statement always stuck with me of what an appropriate way to describe where our heads should be. And so I completed the term--and I only have a few more things to share with you.

At that time, I remember going to--my mother- and father-in-law were living, uh, just outside of Phoenix--and going out there and I would meet their friends, certainly much older than me--and the moment that they knew that I was at Kent State, obviously they needed to talk about this. And I remember more than once people would say, well, They should've shot 'em all. And I was so irritated and offended and appalled by that comment and I said, "So, if that had been your grandson or your granddaughter, 'Go ahead and shoot 'em,' is that what you're saying?" Then they would [imitates speech] buh buh buh buh--sort of backpeddle, but I thought what a polarizing nation we've become. And then--it was a pretty dramatic time in my career here because at that time I was simultaneously--I got tenure, I was promoted to Assistant Professor, and I got a leave of absence to go to Michigan State to start my PhD. And so I left in the summer of 1970 and was gone through the academic year because I was in my residency at Michigan State, but when I got up there--the same sort of thing. When I was in classes--when they knew that I--you'd introduce yourself in your doctoral coursework and they would say as soon as they know that I was from here, they would want to engage me in conversation, and so, I was called upon frequently, but--they had--it was a phenomenon that occurred throughout the United States. We had something like--I thought thousands of thousands of dollars of damage to windows that were broken out up at Michigan State, there were events at Ohio State, the shootings at Jackson State, and--I guess, maybe in summation from my point, because I've had a continuous dialogue here--that I, I think my views have radically changed. When I saw how far away some of those students were--it's a harsh word to say murder, because I kind of reserve that for something special, but what was it? I don't, I don't at all agree with the idea that they were--the Guard were defending themselves, I don't think they were threatened nearly as much--I think people's motives and political agenda comes out at a time like this.

I was at a high school reunion and one of my friends--I'm kind of saying that with quotes because I was very disappointed and irritated with his comment--he said something about, well, that put a stop to it, didn't it? And I thought, You don't get it. Isn't there an issue of responsibility and morality that yeah, we can stop all the drunk drivers by shooting them, that would put an end to it, too. I mean, you know--what is your sense of value? There were people like that, and it--I think that I have probably become more liberal--because I grew up in a fairly conservative home--but I think my views have become much more liberal, that--I don't know that any of that shooting was justified. I'm, I'm far less angry with the Guard--I'm very angry with then-Governor James Rhodes and Del Corso, the general--or adj[utant] general of the Guard. I think these were the people that were responsible. I--It was a terribly unfortunate event and a lot of irony that I personally have, you know, witnessed. Like that my friend's comment, like, "Well, shoot one for me," and I could have videotaped the whole event, and all that and--not wishing that I had--but it's just sort of ironic--so, that's as much as I can think to share with you and perhaps you have questions.

[Interviewer]: Were you ever contacted by the FBI or any authorities for being a witness to the--?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: No, I wasn't, but I remember--I think, seems like we did walk over shortly after that, we walked over to what is the university auditorium and there was a group meeting there of faculty and I think it was about then that were not allowed any longer to be on campus and network television was there, and I remember seeing myself on national TV walking down the sidewalk and that's sort of a double-take, but no, I was not interviewed about it. And maybe thankfully because I know that there are people who would have used what I overheard--that comment, "Well, shoot one for me"--they would have seized on it and had it been valid, then they had every right to seize on it, but I, I knew the spirit that he said it--I mean, the body language of hand gestures and facial expressions and the twinkling of an eye and the smile and all that sort of thing like, um, it was said in a certain sense of terribly inappropriate levity but it was still levity and, but, no I wasn't witness--er, I was not interviewed by anybody.

[Interviewer]: What was the atmosphere of the campus like when you finally returned?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: I think a lot of introspection was a part of it, I think there was a lot of sadness, I thought that--I think we were concerned about the welfare of the institution because you always feel threatened, like, What is going to happen to this place? and, Why here? And I love this place, it's, it's a fabulous university and it was--I wouldn't want it to happen anywhere and I certainly didn't want it to happen here. And I think there was a lot of soul-searching, um, it was a lot of polarizing of the youth and older populations. I think the people in the town were adamant about it. Um, I think that some people took on more of a political sensitivity than they'd ever had before. And that stayed with us for a long time, that--there was a social consciousness throughout that time and it continued--it raised a lot of serious questions. I see students today not nearly as concerned about those--the closest I think they get to it today is, I think, maybe a sensitivity toward the environment, but, I think people are far more interested in promoting their careers and the materialistic world. I teach a course here called The Cultural Dynamics of Technology, and I just seem like--I witness that of, of--we value things more than we do ideas, more than we do people and I--you walk around, you see the number of people in a snapshot of how many have a cell phone. They're--I think we've become a little bit more turned into ourselves and a bit hedonistic, I think.

[Interviewer]: Are there any other thoughts you'd like to share?

[Lowell Zurbuch]: No, I think I have shared all. I think it's important at this point that this be documented, but I, I'm glad that it didn't happen sooner, as I've said, but this--I think people have more of a persp--have greater perspective, a more accurate perspective now than the emotions of that moment and so, I wanted to have this come out, but I--I've sure waited long enough. I've spoken to Jerry Lewis about this. And--apparently--have you interviewed him? Do you know him?

[Interviewer]: I know who he is. I don't believe he's given an interview. I know he immediate--I think in the years immediately following the event--I think he actually had his own sort of oral history project which he donated to us.

[Lowell Zurbuch]: [overlapping] Sure, yeah, that's correct. And I've said to him--I told him about this, perhaps a year ago or less and apparently some other strange, bizarre events happened similar to what I've just shared. But, no, I've sort of just kept it to myself. So--okay?

[Interviewer]: Dr. Zurbuch, thank you very much for speaking with us.

[Lowell Zurbuch] Oh, you're most welcome.

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