Steven Grudzinski, Oral History

Recorded: May 4, 2000
Interviewed by Deborah Frazier
Transcribed by Maggie Castellani

[Interviewer]: Hello. I'm Deborah Frazier and I'll be helping you with your oral history today, May 4th, 2000.

[Steven Grudzinski]: My name is Steve Grudzinski. I was a senior student on campus on May 4th, 1970. I was, I began going to Kent State in the fall of 1967. I ultimately graduated in December of 1970. On December [ i.e. May] 4th, 1970, I had a, I was in an accounting class -- I was an accounting major - I had an accounting class in Franklin Hall at 11:00, met every day, and it was over at 11:50. I was living in Tri-Towers. And after the class, proceeded to walk back to my dorm. Normally would cut across The Common[s] area, which I did. And on this particular day obviously there was a demonstration starting to, or in progress, right around 12:00. I had been gone for the weekend and I came back Sunday night. So I knew that there was some activity going on in town with the burning of some buildings on Friday night and Saturday night. So when I got back to town on Sunday, late afternoon, I walked around on campus a little bit and downtown. Sunday night was kind of hectic in the dorms. Again I was living in Leebrick Hall, Tri-Towers. There were helicopters flying overhead. It was kind of, somewhat scary experience. We were told to stay inside. We were not allowed outside. Of course a few people that I knew tried to make it across campus and were turned back. But anyway, back to that morning, I left my class, was proceeding again back to my dorm for lunch, saw the beginning of a demonstration. And I was going, cutting across Lilac Lane - I think it was called Lilac Lane at the time, it still probably is Lilac Lane - and I just stopped there just so I was between the ROTC buildings and the actual field, the burned ROTC buildings and actual field. And it's kind of amazing to me that I was there and I have seen these photographs and pictures on the news over the last somewhat thirty years. But you know I witnessed that the National Guard people pulled up in a vehicle. Originally they stayed in the street. Somebody made an announcement with a bullhorn that it was an unlawful demonstration, assembly. And that we were, the group was ordered to disperse. That happened for just a couple of minutes. And the next thing I saw that the jeep actually pulled up onto the grass. Some more announcements were made. At this time, more people were gathering with me on Lilac Lane. More people were gathering on the grass Commons. And the next thing I remember is the Guardsmen started shooting gas, teargas. And then much to the surprise and I guess amusement of the people I was standing with, several of the students picked up and returned, and were throwing the gas canisters back to the Guard. And again, I watched that for just a few minutes and I was on my way back. I headed back up to my dorm for lunch. I walked up the staircase to the left of Blanket Hill -- and there's some tennis courts to the left of them -- and as I was walking up the steps I realized that people were passing me. They were running passed me. And I couldn't figure out why. I turned around and even though I couldn't see it in the air that some of the gas had dissipated in the air and I got a whiff of the gas, and I knew why they were running. So I took off up the hill as well, made it back to my room. I lived on the sixth floor, in room 617. Went to my room, went to the restroom and went back and waited for the elevator on the sixth floor. And there were two other people on the floor waiting for an elevator and there was also one girl from the other side of Leebrick. They had the, at that time, they had the door open between the two halves, half for men, half for women, and they had the door open, so you could use two elevators instead of one. I can't remember who they were, but I know that I knew them as acquaintances on the floor. And we were standing there waiting for the elevator, not very long. And then all of a sudden we heard what to me sounded like firecrackers. And the two guys I was standing with got down, immediately got down on the ground. And they yelled at me to get down. And it was, it happened so fast, it was a noise. And I didn't realize at the moment what had happened. But what had happened was a bullet came through the window above our heads. And I was a little dumbfounded in that being from New York and not firing many guns in my lifetime, I didn't think you could shoot a gun that far. And they assured me that you could shoot a M1 pretty far. And obviously after a few seconds we got up. We examined where the bullet came through the window and it was embedded into the wall on the other side of the waiting area, the lobby. And next thing is we basically heard announcements. Of course it was probably several minutes but we heard announcements that the University was closed and we had to evacuate. But I often wondered and often thought that how lucky we were that that bullet came through the glass and it was enough over our heads and off to the side that no one really got hurt. But we certainly would have been innocent, as innocent a bystander as you could have been if somebody in that group had gotten hurt.

And I remember then, I was living in New York, my home was in New York and I had to get off campus. And I had to -- I had no way of getting directly home. But I went home with some friends to Canton, Ohio. And I remember my biggest concern of moving is I had a small aquarium in my room which consisted of a couple of fish inside a beer pitcher. And I had to get that out of the room because we didn't know how long it would be before we got back in. It turned out we never did get back in until everything got moved out. But I remember the ride out of Kent. There were a lot of security. People were being turned back heading north on Route 43 as we made our way down to 76. And we basically got out of town. And that was my recollection of May 4th.

I'd just like to add a couple more comments about that time, about my time at Kent. As I mentioned I was a business student, an average student, "B" student. After two years of going to school, my goals had changed and I accelerated what I was doing. I got my act together. I ended up graduating two quarters early. At that time, I think back to that time in my life, that spring of 1970, I certainly knew what was going on in the world - read a newspaper every day - but I was not an active participant. I don't remember ever attending any kind of student demonstration of any type. Had friends who did. You know, the whole issue of what happened in those days following, proceeding the May 4th incident - the President's announcement of the invasion of Cambodia - it didn't really mean that much to me. I was more concerned with getting done with school, getting out, getting a job. It just, it seemed so far away. When I finally graduated and faced the draft, obviously it meant a little more to me. It's kind of hard for me to think about that because I knew people who were in the service at the time. I knew people who were overseas at that time. And even then, it was something that I could just put out of my mind. It was nothing that really affected me on a day-to-day basis. So I got to believe there were other people like me at that time. So that's all I have to say.

[Interviewer]: Has that changed?

[Steven Grudzinski]: I read the newspaper every day. Not really active, just, it's just not my style. No, so I guess I haven't changed in that respect.

I also brought some slide pictures that I took on May 4th and primarily that day before, on Sunday the 3rd. I had been out, off-campus for that weekend visiting friends down in Canton. I came back to the campus late Sunday afternoon. I remember it being a real sunny day. We obviously had heard on the news that there was the burning of the ROTC buildings, I believe on Friday [i.e. Saturday] night and then the demonstrations downtown on Saturday [i.e. Friday]. We obviously knew when we got back to campus that the National Guard had been called. We got back to campus and I grabbed my camera. And I remember we walked downtown. I took some shots of military vehicles, personnel carriers that were lining the street, which obviously they just were out of place. You know, it was more unusual than a fear of what could happen. I never gave any thought that there would be, you know, real violence. I never gave any thought to, you know, anybody getting killed or people really getting hurt. So I took several pictures. I remember I took some picture of the helicopter that later on that night, Sunday night, would be flying up ahead, above with a searchlight, which added to the drama of Sunday night. Again, I was living in Leebrick Hall. We were all -- announcements were made to stay inside. We were not allowed to go outside. And we pretty much, the group that I was with, we did stay inside. Again, I took a few pictures of personnel carriers, some of the Guardsmen were lining the intersections along Route 59. I have a few pictures of those people. And then on May 4th when the bullet came above my head in the window in Leebrick Hall on the sixth floor, I did take a picture of that window. And I also have that. And I'm going to provide copies of that to the project. And that's it.

×