Richard Chemel, Oral History

Recorded: November 3, 2016

Interviewed by Lae’l Hughes-Watkins

Transcribed by the Kent State University Research and Evaluation Bureau

Note: This transcript includes geo-references to locations that are discussed in the oral history. Geographical names linked in the transcript will open in a new window or tab that takes you to that location information and map in the Mapping May 4 project. To request a transcript without geo-reference links included, please contact Kent State University Special Collections & Archives.

 

[Interviewer]: This is Lae’l Hughes-Watkins speaking on November 3, [2016] at Kent State University Special Collections and Archives as part of the May 4 Oral History Project. I will be talking with Richard Saskin [Chemel]. I would like to begin with a few biographical questions. First, where were you born?

 

[Richard Chemel]: I was born in Kansas City, Missouri, in 1950.

 

[Interviewer]: Where did you grow up?

 

[Richard Chemel]: I grew up in Kansas City through the age of ten then down in North Miami Beach through the age of seventeen. Then my mother moved to Cleveland and that’s where I went to high school, graduated from Warrensville Heights High School, and then I went to college at Kent State University.

 

[Interviewer]: What brought you to Kent State University?

 

[Richard Chemel]: My grades. Yeah, that’s the truth, my grades. Ohio State had accepted me for summer session, but Kent was closer and finances, too, a lot to do with it.

 

[Interviewer]: What was your major when you were a student? 

 

[Richard Chemel]: My major was telecommunications.

 

[Interviewer]: What were the prevailing attitudes among the students in the spring of 1970, if you can recall?

 

[Richard Chemel]: If I recall, there was a lot of activity, we had a lot of visitors on campus. I know I.F. Stone came, the SDS published a newspaper, it was an active campus. I don’t know if it was active for the students per se, but I know that people came in to make it active. There were demonstrations and sit-ins and it was the time of the Vietnam War.

 

[Interviewer]: Were you politically active yourself among any of the movements taking place at that time?

 

[Richard Chemel]: Not really, not really. I was a journalism minor and I was writing record reviews for the Kent Stater, that’s as political as it would get.

 

[Interviewer]: Can you recall how you viewed the protests and Vietnam War when you first arrived to campus?

 

[Richard Chemel]: I really didn’t delve into it; I wasn’t really that knowledgeable about it because I was more interested in passing my classes and stuff like that. I was a member of a fraternity, Teke [TKE], and we had social activities, and the Vietnam War, I was more concerned about the draft and the numbers and stuff like that but, no, I wasn’t really that involved in that.

 

[Interviewer]: Do you recall any of your family members being aware of the protests or activities taking place on campus?

 

[Richard Chemel]: No, not at all.

 

[Interviewer]: Do you remember the environment in your classes and prevailing attitudes regarding the protests in the spring of 1970?

 

[Richard Chemel]: Not really. I don’t recall any professors being for or against at all. I didn’t have any radical professors per se.

 

[Interviewer]: Do you think you remember getting a sense of the city of Kent and the residents at that time and their feelings?

 

[Richard Chemel]: The city of Kent always had treated Kent State University as a stepchild. I remember as chairman of the Major Events Committee, I remember there was always a division there in having to deal with the city. There was an underlying feeling because we had student advisors and we had faculty advisors at Major Events, and you heard whispers and stuff like that.

 

[Interviewer]: Now, at this time, I would like to ask for you to recall your experiences starting from April 30th to May 4, 1970.

 

[Richard Chemel]: April 30th, was that the Thursday?

 

[Interviewer]: Yes, yes.

 

[Richard Chemel]: April 30^th, I remember going to Cleveland with my girlfriend to see Woodstock and we came back that night and I don’t recall that much. On Friday, I remember the demonstrations. I lived at the TKE house which was on Main Street right across from the [Kent State University] seal, right near the Robin Hood Inn, and I remember the National Guard marching and we were—there were brothers outside the TKE house, but the Guard was pushing the students towards—I can’t remember which way. They wanted to—what is the word I’m thinking. They wanted to dispel the students. That’s not the right word for it. But what happened was there were some drunk fraternity brothers of mine on the front porch and on the grass and the National Guard fired teargas and one of the brothers, Jim Russell, and this is something that hadn’t been reported, was wearing his tie-dye T-shirt and a National Guardsmen clubbed him in the knee. We were letting students come through the TKE house to escape being arrested and they would go out the back door and down the alley or whatever it was behind the TKE house. It was next to Gas Town. I think it’s a Wendy’s now. That was it.

I think a few of the brothers, one was very upset because he couldn’t go down to the Robin Hood Inn and drink. That was the environment. It was very chaotic. It was unusual and chaotic that night. As far as Saturday morning, it was like a hangover, people were talking about it. The Guard was still around and it was, I shouldn’t say festive activity, but it was like—or a carnival atmosphere, but it was that type of atmosphere. Okay, the students were joking with the Guard and back and forth. But when nightfall came, I have to believe there were people outside of students that were infiltrating the students on that Saturday. I remember watching the ROTC building burn and I remember watching people cutting the water lines or the hoses of the firemen and it was—it seemed to be an organized activity. That was my opinion.

 

[Interviewer]: And that’s why you believe there were people infiltrating the students?

 

[Richard Chemel]: Yeah, it seemed organized. Okay, it seemed very organized that Saturday for the burning of the ROTC building. Like I said, that’s my opinion.

Sunday was another festive atmosphere, and I don’t recall anything happening Sunday night. Monday classes, I guess about eleven o’clock or something, people were gathering, they called for a demonstration on The Commons and people were gathering there and the Guard was there as well. They’d taken up a line and they started moving us up the hill. This is where I’m hazy because I forgot all about this. I guess the Guard was—people were throwing rocks at the Guard and they were moving up the hill and then they went on that practice football field. There were people still throwing rocks and taunting them.

As they came up the football field, I was in front of Taylor Hall on the terrace, and, as they came up the football field, I turned to my right and I saw them just start shooting, just like the pictures. I took cover behind the pole on Taylor Hall and I saw who I now know is Jeff Miller on the ground bleeding and people screaming. It was pure chaos. We tried to—we went into Taylor Hall to try to get into the Dean’s office to get help and the Dean’s door was locked, we couldn’t get help. So, what I did—I believe I was one of the first people down the hill and I ran into Dr. Glenn Frank because I had him for Geology that quarter. He said to me, “Richard, what’s happening up there,” and I said, “They’re shooting people,” and he says—and I said, “There’s blood,” and he says, “Is this a rumor?” And I said, “No, I saw blood.” From there I went into the Major Events room and I put on, I guess, somebody had given me a Red Cross armband, and they weren’t shooting tear gas at us, they were shooting pepper gas, because people were using Vaseline on their face and it was still burning, thinking of that. What happened after that is still confusing to me until the Jeep—there was like a standoff between the students and the National Guard and it looked like the school officials and the National Guard, they didn’t know what to do until the Jeep roared by and I think it was Dr. Frank with the bullhorn saying that school is closed effective today, please leave by, I think it was four o’clock or six o’clock. So, I went to the TKE house and gathered up my belongings and drove my girlfriend up to Cleveland. I’ll never forget when I went to my mom’s apartment and I saw Walter Cronkite opening the CBS News with the killings at Kent State.

At that time, I realized the depth of what happened, and when the magazines came out. Now, as chairman of the Major Events, I was in charge of Campus Day. Campus Day was supposed to be that weekend and if I recall it was David Frye, B.J. Thomas, and Gary Puckett and the Union Gap. I had to come back to campus to cancel the concert. I recall, I couldn’t get to the Major Events office, I recall seeing in The Commons, it was gridded off with string in squares and somebody told me that they were measuring, picking up rocks, and measuring the poundage of it.

 

[Interviewer]: So, you’re saying that there were people there—could you repeat that again?

 

[Richard Chemel]: Afterwards, I think the day afterwards or two days afterwards, I drove back to campus. Because I couldn’t get to the Major Events office, I was in a building near it, I could see on The Commons that there was rope or string grid squares. People were—somebody told me that they were marking where the rocks were and the weight of the rocks. The government. Okay, they were keeping track for whatever reason.

That summer we had to take our classes, either we could accept the midterm grade or take it pass/fail. I remember I had one class—Bowling—so I took that pass/fail. It was just—there was really a lack of communications, in my opinion, by the university to the students after it happened. You can’t be prepared for a crisis like this, today they are. But, back then, they were totally unprepared to deal communication-wise with the students that were there. That’s one resentment that I held onto for about forty years. That’s one thing. Coming back to campus—that day changed my life. I quit the fraternity, I became radical in nature, and I went on to graduate, didn’t have anything to do with the university after that and came out to California to make my fortune.

Let me just say one thing. Let me backtrack that we put on a memorial concert that next year and we invited, Manhattan Transfer and Bert Sommer were the people that volunteered to be there. Leo Kottke had volunteered but had a date. But, I do remember I wrote a letter to Pete Seeger. And Pete Seeger replied. I didn’t save that letter but, if I recall, if they still have the files of the Major Events Committee, Chuck Sackett or Judy—I can’t remember her last name—were the faculty advisors, there should be some letters in there from artists talking about Kent State and, turning us down. But Pete Seeger said that he would rather us ask a singer from Mississippi to come up. I remember also Joan Baez came on campus and, once again, I.F. Stone and all these other people.

 

[Interviewer]: Do you recall the reason why they thought a singer from Mississippi would be—?

 

[Richard Chemel]: Because he felt that it was more with the movement that was going on. Okay, and when we contacted this lady, and I can’t remember her name, she didn’t even know Pete Seeger, but she was honored, she couldn’t do the concert, but he knew about her. She was either from Mississippi or Alabama. I wish I had saved that letter but, unless they threw it away, it should be somewhere in that vast archives that you guys have.

 

[Interviewer]: I’ll have to look.

 

[Richard Chemel]: Okay, because I remember it was in a file cabinet in the office there. The FBI came to visit me that summer because I guess they had pictures. What they asked me was did I know of any outside people having lunch at the student center that were planning the protest. I’d had no knowledge of that at all. And I think that—I don’t know if you’ve spoken to Dale Lintala about the Jim Russell story. About when he was shot, he was wearing that tie-dye T-shirt that I alluded to on Friday night. And because he was shot in the head and I think in the thigh—Jim always fainted at the sight of blood—and, when he saw the blood, he started to pass out and that’s why he was shot, I think, in the forehead or the temple and the thigh. Those are my recollections. What I don’t understand, to this day, is the university just cut us loose and let us live our lives with that traumatic experience whether we were there on the front of Taylor Hall or whether we were a student at that time. I’ve always wanted to tell my story. Thank you for the opportunity because it is a historical event that changed the course of the nation.

 

[Interviewer]: Do you think your views have changed about May 4 over time, or is it the same since 1970?

 

[Richard Chemel]: When you say May 4, do you mean my views about the university or the event?

 

[Interviewer]: However you would like to describe that.

 

[Richard Chemel]: My views about May 4th, it still was an unfortunate tragedy. It did not need to happen. About the university, and I related this to you in a previous conversation, that I had visited the campus a few times for some reunions and I noticed there was one memorial, two memorials, and I’m talking about two memorial, what is the word—I’m having a brain fart.

 

[Interviewer]: Commemoration?

 

[Richard Chemel]: No, not commemorations, because they do that every year. But they had placards. They had about four different placards or memorial locations. I just didn’t understand it. The university was trying its best, and I think that finally when I came back to campus this year, 2016, and I saw the May 4th [Visitors] Center, and I saw at night, the parking spots and the spot where Jeff was murdered. I saw how it was lit up. It commemorates it. It’s an eerie sight to see at night. It really is.

I think they finally have done it right, they finally realized—that the University finally realized that they needed to do something that really was respectful to everybody, not something thrown together. Over the years, and I haven’t told my story, I’ve always wanted to go back, I’m in touch with Dean Kahler now, and I probably will come back on one of the May 4th commemorative events. Maybe on the 50th anniversary. To think that it’s gonna be fifty years is amazing. After May 4^th, I remember everybody descended on Kent State. Ike Pappas from CBS News with his slanted journalism. James Michener, people like that. I ran into Dan Rather at Bill Maher once. A friend of mine is a producer and I talked to him about Kent State and I said to him, “I’m really sad that I never got an apology,” and he said, “Don’t ever expect it.” So, I’ve come to face that. That the university, still, that there’s that little resentment that the university really hasn’t acknowledged the trauma that students went through. I know they have the Foundation and stuff like that, but that doesn’t really help a lot of people. And I could equate that with people who were in Vietnam Wars and Iraq and stuff like that coming back. It’s traumatic. Every May 4th we have to go through it, I have to go through it. I have to hear Crosby Stills Nash and Young singing "Ohio." When I tell people I went to Kent State, “Were you there?” But it’s part of life, it’s something that I’ve learned to accept, not that I like it. 

 

[Interviewer]: Well, is there anything else you would like to add that I didn’t have a chance to ask you?

 

[Richard Chemel]: Only that I appreciate that there is this history being recorded from students and faculty and everybody else that the university is doing it so it can be listened to in 100 years, 200 years. I appreciate it. I appreciate what you’re doing and what The Foundation is doing and stuff like that. There are a lot of my fellow students that still are pissed off about what happened and won’t go back. I’ll let them know that there’s a historical aspect now being recorded.

 

[Interviewer]: Well, at this time I will conclude our interview and I would like to say thank you for sharing your story with us.

 

[Richard Chemel]: Hey, no problem. I appreciate what you’re doing.

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