Jeffrey Fine, Oral History

 

Recorded: May 8, 2020

Interviewed by: Kathleen (Kate) Siebert Medicus

Transcribed by the Kent State University Research & Evaluation Bureau

 

 

[Interviewer]: This is Kathleen Siebert Medicus, speaking on Friday, May 8, 2020, in Kent, Ohio, as part of the May 4 Kent State Shootings Oral History Project. We are recording an interview over the telephone today. Could you please state your name for the recording?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Sure, my name is Jeffrey Fine.

 

[Interviewer]: Jeffrey, thank you so much. Do you mind if I call you Jeffrey during the interview?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: That’s quite all right.

 

[Interviewer]: I really appreciate your taking the time and volunteering to share your memories with us. I’m just going to introduce, for people listening, that you grew up with Bill Schroeder, one of the students who was killed on May 4, 1970, on the Kent State campus and that you have written reflections that you’re going to share with us. [00:00:55] Before we get to that, I am just wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about yourself, about your background, where you were born, where you grew up?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Sure, Kate. I grew up in Lorain, Ohio. I was born there and was still residing there when I went off to college. And so, my entire upbringing took place in a very relatively small, steel-plant town. It was, I think, really a wonderful place to grow up. It was that special decade of the Fifties and so, growing up at a rather ideal and idyllic time which I think really heightens the contrast when I think about those years growing up and what then happened in 1970. It’s quite a stark, stark contrast.

 

[Interviewer]: Definitely. Thank you. Would you like to next read your reflections for us?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Sure, I’d be happy to. Kate, let me also express my appreciation for the opportunity to do this and to thank everybody involved with the [May 4] Task Force for all the incredible work they’ve done. I was just so moved by everything that I just discovered on this commemoration, this 50^th commemoration, so I was just so gratified to see all of those remembrances and all of those efforts that everyone has made. I really appreciate this opportunity.

 

To begin, as I just said, I grew up in Lorain, Ohio, actually not too many blocks from Bill Schroeder. We went to the same public schools from seventh grade through high school. We were in different elementary schools. We graduated together from high school in June of 1968 and, I will say, Bill and I were not best friends, but we certainly were friends. We were in many classes together through twelfth grade and we were both in the marching band at Lorain High School. After graduation, he ultimately ended up at Kent State and I went to Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois.

 

By my sophomore year at Northwestern, I had become politically active in protesting the war in Vietnam and then, on May 4^th, 1970, I got the news about Kent State. I was in disbelief. It could not have happened. It could not be true. I called my parents in Ohio. All I remember about that phone call is that I was screaming and crying that the National Guard had murdered Bill. I was literally, and I mean literally, out of my mind with pain and anguish. I just kept yelling and shouting and screaming into the phone, at the top of my lungs, “How could this happen? How could they have shot him? How could he be dead?” My parents, incredibly, managed to stay calm and just listened. They tried to calm me, but I could not be calmed. I hung up the phone. I ran to find my roommates and my fraternity brothers. I belonged, at that time, to a fraternity that was very, very politically active already. I ran into the fraternity house screaming about Bill being dead. My fraternity brothers gathered around me to try to comfort me, but again, I could not be comforted.

 

Together, we planned the next day’s demonstration. I tore a piece of red cloth, I wrote Bill’s name on it, and wore it as an armband. I actually still have that armband. We went about building four coffins for the demonstration. The next day, I was one of Bill’s pallbearers as we somberly walked down Sheridan Road in Evanston in a mock funeral procession to Deering Meadow in front of the iconic structure that was Deering Library. We dug graves and buried the four dead: Allison, Sandra, Jeffrey, and Bill, as hundreds of hundreds of fellow students gathered in the meadow to grieve and to cry.

 

Today, actually, there’s a small stone in plaque under an oak tree on that burial site on Deering Meadow. It reads, “Dedicated to the four students killed at Kent State and the two students killed at Jackson State in May 1970, during protests against the War in Vietnam.”

 

On this site, students of Northwestern University rallied in solidarity with these students in opposition to the war. The rest of that day, and the days of protests that followed, kind of all blur together in one composite memory of mine of marching and needing and building and manning barricades in the street and running through the quads, screaming for all to come out and protest the murders and the war. Classes were cancelled. We could all take strike grades and the school year eventually ended quietly.

 

Many years ago, I contacted Kent State when I heard that they were planning a memorial to the four who died and the nine that were wounded. I contributed to the fund to build the memorial. Bill would be turning seventy with me this year. We actually share a birthday, July 20^th. I’m guessing that we would not have stayed in touch. Perhaps, we might have seen each other at one of the high school reunions I attended. I’m guessing that we would not have been very significant to each other in our lives. That said, I can’t begin to describe how important his memory has been to me for my entire adult life. Quite honestly, it is a rare day when I do not have, at least, a fleeting thought about him. I’m really not sure why. I went directly to graduate school after Northwestern and became a psychologist. Bill was studying psychology. I’m still not sure why I think of Bill so often, but I do. I believe I always will and it will always hurt just a little. Four of my college roommates, my closest college friends, with whom I have remained in close touch, are all named Bill. One of them died in 1989. Maybe that’s why. Maybe I just keep all of the “Bills” in my life close to my heart. Thank you.

 

[Interviewer]: Thank you. Let’s take a brief pause.

 

This is Kathleen Siebert Medicus and we are back recording after a brief pause. Jeffrey, thank you so much for sharing those reflections with us. It was beautifully articulated.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Thank you.

 

[Interviewer]: I really appreciate it.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: I’m happy for the opportunity to be inspired to write it and to, even more so, be able to record it for, hopefully, others to hear.

 

[Interviewer]: Yeah, well good, good. Boy, the first thing that comes to my mind in terms of things I would love to know more about and ask you about is anything you could tell us about what Bill Schroeder was like as a person, growing up. What was he like in marching band and as a classmate?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Sure. Well, as I had said, we had classes together and we were in marching band together and look, anybody who knows about marching band knows that it’s a pretty wild and crazy bunch. Bill was no exception to that whatsoever. So, just fun-loving and funny, a great sense of humor and certainly, a serious side to him as well. Always right in with whatever nonsense we were getting in trouble for or about to get in trouble for. He was always up for it which was always fun.

 

And also, I remember, he was just a handsome, handsome guy. Most of us looked kind of goofy in our band uniforms, but Bill, he could pull it off. Like a man in uniform, you know? The rest of us, it didn’t fit, the pants were baggy, the shoulders were too wide but, I don’t know, Bill looked pretty good in that uniform. I think there’s a picture on the website of him in the marching band uniform, I’m pretty sure. So, there’s proof. You can look at that and say, Wow, he’s rocking that marching band uniform.

 

[Interviewer]: I will definitely look for that.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: I think those are the things I think about most. I haven’t actually thought about that for a long, long time, Kate, but yeah, that’s certainly some part of him that I remember.

 

[Interviewer]: I’m guessing he didn’t have any trouble getting a date for the prom, or had a lot of friends?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: No, and the rest of us were probably a little jealous because he was a good-looking guy, for sure.

 

[Interviewer]: Any other memories of him from classes?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: You know, those are the ones that stand out—hard time remembering what exact classes we had together over the years. Just always friendly and outgoing and never somebody to make you feel awkward or uncomfortable or uninvited. Just a very inclusive kind of guy.

 

[Interviewer]: Thank you so much for sharing that. I really appreciate it.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Sure, sure, sure.

 

[Interviewer]: A couple things I’m wondering if you could tell us a little more about, from your college days at Northwestern. You mentioned that you were in a fraternity and that it happened to be very politically active. Could you tell us what fraternity that was?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Yeah, but it won’t mean anything to anybody because it’s been defunct for many years. It was Tau Delta Phi on the Northwestern campus and it was very radical. I think because of how radical some aspects of it were, I think, actually ended up in resulting in its demise. This was shortly before that happened. It was just a group of guys who were—we all were very, very politically activated that year with Vietnam and with the lottery and all those things going on. We had been demonstrating since the Nixon announcement about mining the Harbor of Cambodia, that sort of got this all triggered, at a time when we were hoping that the war would be winding down. It was a pretty crazy time to be on a college campus to begin with. There’d been some very significant demonstrations leading up to May 4^th.

 

The campus, which is one of the most beautiful campuses in the country, Northwestern, sits right on the shore of Lake Michigan. It’s just idyllic and gorgeous. The main campus was surrounded by about a seven-foot-high wrought iron fence. I mean, thousands of feet of this wrought iron fence. In the days before May 4^th, we actually pulled up the fencing that ran down Sheridan Road and piled it all in the middle of Sheridan Road and it became a barricade that we manned for many days leading up to May 4^th.

 

There were demonstrations like that happening all over. Actually, in retrospect, I and, I’m sure, my parents, were also happy to know, they did call in the National Guard to our campus. However, the chancellor of the university was wise enough. He housed the National Guard about a mile and a half or two miles away from the main campus where the football practice field was. So, the National Guard was nowhere to be seen, but they were stationed and camped out, like I said, about a mile and a half away. Smartly and wisely, despite how activated things got, they never called them to the campus.

 

I think what I remember, also, is our student body president, her name is Eva Jefferson, she actually gained some national renown. She ended up to be one of the class presidents that was on the cover of Newsweek magazine that week and she was really quite extraordinary in both guiding things that were going on and maintaining calm and peace. I fear that, had we not had that kind of student body leadership, things could have turned very, very ugly at Northwestern. It could have become another Kent State. Thankfully, we never saw the National Guard. They were never called to the campus, and they were eventually sent away. That was kind of the experience that we all had.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:17:25] Were you ever afraid during this time before May 4? Was there ever a moment where you were scared?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: I was so angry and so upset right around May 4^th that I was never afraid. I was never afraid. But I will tell you that, during that same year, I was at a demonstration in downtown Chicago. I have a very distinct memory of marching near what was called the Federal Building in downtown Chicago and everybody was kind of milling around. To my back was this granite façade of the Federal Building and, in front of me, on the street, were shoulder-to-shoulder Chicago City policemen. If you’ve read about that time and year, Chicago cops were not exactly the nicest guys going.

 

So, I was standing there. I have this very distinct memory, Kate, of standing there with my back to the Federal Building, no place to go, facing, about ten feet in front of me, these shoulder-to-shoulder cops with their riot gear on and standing there menacingly tapping their billy clubs in their hands. My thought at that moment was, Oh my gosh, if somebody throws a rock or a bottle or charges a cop, I’ve got no place to go. I’m dead. That was my last big demonstration like that. That’s a moment when I was scared. But when I was on campus, throughout the May 4^th experience, I was just way, way too angry to be scared.

 

[Interviewer]: And you must have also felt that that expression of opinion was being allowed on your campus. There was a little bit of space, at least, was being made for that.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Yes, we were very, very wisely given the space to express ourselves within those boundaries, so to speak.

 

[Interviewer]: Had you heard anything in the news about what was going on in Kent, Ohio, in the days right before May 4? That weekend before?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: I do not remember following that. I may have. I was thinking about that as I was watching the program that you guys put together and just going through day to day to day: the first, the second, the third, and the fourth, and I was just transfixed. And I read so much about it afterwards, that it’s kind of a blur for me as to whether I actually had been following what was going on. That’s a really good question, and I wish I knew the answer to it, but I honestly don’t know.

 

[Interviewer]: But certainly, we know that when you heard the news about students being killed in particular about someone that you knew very personally, that that was a shock. You probably had no idea how that could possibly happen.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: I mean my—as a psychologist, I can look back and understand what I was experiencing. My brain was just completely on overload. The conversation with my parents—I don’t even know if I was making sense. I’m pretty impressed that they didn’t hop in the car and come and bring me home. I can only imagine—they hung up the phone and looked at each other and said, “Oh my god. He’s out of his mind.”

 

[Interviewer]: They must have been very concerned, at that point.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Yeah. And, of course, then, they called frequently. It wasn’t so easy to call back then. They called and I assured them that I wasn’t doing anything insane and that I was back feeling a little more in control. But I just kind of remember literally losing my mind for a period of time. It was just more than—I just couldn’t absorb it. It was a piece of information that was impossible for my brain to absorb, just impossible.

 

I think that’s why he pops into [my mind]—I looked at that program, I watched the footage, and I still look at it and I’m looking at it actually happening and I’m saying to myself, I still cannot believe that that actually happened. It is so horrific. It is so unbelievable that that could happen. I’m incredulous. I’m at a loss for words. I’m looking at it three days ago, on my video screen, and I’m watching the sequence of events: down the hill, forcing them up the hill, high ground, pointing their rifles, and pulling triggers, and bodies dropping. I was incredulous. I’m watching it in black and white and I still can’t believe it actually happened. 

 

[Interviewer]: It’s fifty years later.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: And it’s fifty years later.

 

[Interviewer]: And particularly, in the case of someone like Bill who was an innocent bystander, just walking to class—

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Oh, my gosh. He was in ROTC for crying out loud. He was walking across campus. He couldn’t be more innocent. I mean, they’re all innocent, but it’s just unbelievable. And looking at those close-up photos of their faces, oh my gosh. Just stunning, stunning. It’s a very important piece of work that those folks at the Task Force put together, very important.

 

[Interviewer]: Do you recall how you heard? Was it on the news? The radio? The nightly news on TV? Do you have a memory of that?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Oh, my gosh, Kate. That’s a really good question.

 

[Interviewer]: And you may not have a memory.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: How did I find out?

 

[Interviewer]: It just may not be there.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: You know, it’s so weird. I’m kind of having—I’ve never thought about this. I’m kind of having the notion that I’m thinking my parents may have confirmed it. I may have heard something, called them, and I think they may have confirmed it for me. I wouldn’t put any money on whether that’s accurate, but as you’re asking me the question, and I’m trying to unfold, unpack, how that might have occurred, for some reason, those are the thoughts that come to my mind.

 

[Interviewer]: Well, I could see that happening. That you heard there was a lot of—

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: There was a shooting at Kent State. A shooting at Kent State. Oh, my god. There was a shooting at Kent State. Who got shot? Who got shot? I don’t know. Well, actually, my mom finished her undergraduate degree as an adult at Kent State. She started at Ohio State, and that’s when my folks met and got married before World War II and then my mom, who ultimately became a teacher, finished her degree work at Kent State. Another little connection.

 

[Interviewer]: Right now I’m feeling a lot of empathy for your parents if they did have to be the ones to confirm that fact for you, how awful.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: I’m kind of thinking that may have been how that happened. I’m not sure, Kate, but what an interesting question.

 

[Interviewer]: I’m curious also more about what was going on on your campus at Northwestern University that day, May 4, and the days that followed. So, at Kent State, campus was immediately closed. Students were told to pack their things and they had three hours to evacuate.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: I saw that.

 

[Interviewer]: But that wasn’t the case for your campus, it sounds like?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: No, no, not at all. The campus stayed open, nobody was sent home. Actually, interestingly, I had already met and was dating the woman who would become my wife at Northwestern and that was the week that her folks were supposed to come up and visit her. They lived in Philadelphia. They were going to fly out to Chicago and visit her and, of course, she said not a good a time. So, they did not come and so, we finished school and left and they never had a chance to visit her on campus.  

 

Anyhow, so school remained open. Classes were optional. Many classes just stopped teaching the content and were devoting themselves to topics that were important right there and then about the war and about protesting and demonstration and organizing. And then, there were these strike grades that were offered where you could opt to take this grade that would have no impact on your GPA, but would allow you credit for the course, without finishing the course. So, it was a way to, if you wanted to leave, you could leave. If you felt the thing to do was to not be at classes, but to be taking to the streets, you could do that. And, kind of humorous now, actually, you wouldn’t have to suffer the loss of your credits, God forbid, like that was the most important thing, by taking the strike grade. That’s what a lot of us did, but we stayed. We stayed and the demonstrations continued and then, kids would start to leave and things kind of wound down. My memory of the end of that year is pretty vague, but I think things did quiet down rather substantially after a few weeks.

 

That’s kind of my vague recollection there. I kind of remember, kind of, it boiling down to hanging out a lot with roommates and friends and the school year just kind of quietly, uneventfully, kind of winding down and everybody just going home. Pretty strange, pretty strange.

 

[Interviewer]: What was that like, that summer at home?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: So that was the summer after my sophomore year. I think that was the summer that I actually stayed on campus. That might have been the summer that I actually stayed on campus. I was in a rock and roll band, at the time, and we were going to be busy during the summer cutting a record and trying to get some jobs and kind of, weird to say, kind of back to life as usual after a very dramatic spring.

 

[Interviewer]: And what was your status with the draft or the lottery at that point? Was that an imminent danger for you?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: I was—186 was my number. I do have a very distinct memory of being back in the fraternity house that night that that very first lottery—and seeing people that I knew come up with numbers in the—the well, anything below a hundred—not so good. But, I was fortunate enough, I had 186 and then, my dad sent me an article, a newspaper article from our local newspaper in my hometown Lorain, Ohio. It was called Lorain Journal and, in there, there was a notice from the Draft Board that said if you put your number—if you activated your draft number for at least thirty days, at the end of the year, if you are actively in the pool for thirty days, like from, let’s just say November 30^th  to December 30^th.

 

[Interviewer]: Of 1970?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Yeah. And if you didn’t get called, then, the following year, the draft would have to go all the way through 365 and then start the numbers again and get to your number in order for you to be drafted. So, I was one of the fortunate and so, I put my number in. I activated my number at the appropriate time, and then ended up at the back of the line and never got called.

 

[Interviewer]: Now if they had called you, you would’ve been drafted, regardless of student status?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Right. So, it was a gamble, but by tracking the numbers and where they were and what was happening on the warfront, it was a calculated risk and that’s what I did. So, that was it. Never heard from the Draft Board again. Thankfully.

 

[Interviewer]: Yeah, definitely.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: One of my “Bills” was not so lucky.

 

[Interviewer]: Oh, one of your college friends named Bill?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: One of my roommate “Bills.” He’s alive and well. He’s alive and well, but he was over there and he’s got lots of post-traumatic stress and has had lots of struggles. But, thank goodness, he’s doing very well now and we’re in regular contact. But he was over there for a couple years.

 

[Interviewer]: Was he drafted right out of school?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Yeah, well, he had a very low number and there was, kind of, some tension around this between he and his father. And so, actually, as some kind of demonstration to his dad, he said, “Welp, I’m number fourteen. I’m not going to take the student deferment. I’m going to go sign up.” And he did. Fortunately, he survived, but it really took its toll.

 

[Interviewer]: Was that action what his father was wanting him to do or the opposite?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: No, I think his dad was kind of pushing it—to do his duty—kind of stuff.

 

[Interviewer]: Another question, just maybe one more question about your college, about Northwestern.  You had two more years of school and I’m just wondering about the mood during your last years of studies. I’m also curious about the plaque commemorating the Kent State students and the Jackson State students, when that was put up or if you were involved in that plaque?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: I wasn’t involved. I found it. When did I find it? Oh, you would think that maybe I had my kid sleeping under Northwestern pennants and Northwestern blankets and wearing Northwestern sweatshirts. But we did none of that, and yet, they both ended up at Northwestern.

 

[Interviewer]: Maybe that’s why they wanted to go to Northwestern.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: I don’t know. But anyhow, so when we—

 

[Interviewer]: You’re the psychologist.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Right, exactly. Yeah, you’d think I should figure that out. So, when we went to drop my daughter off, at the beginning of her experience there, we were walking around and I was showing her, on Deering Meadow, where the demonstration took place and I think that’s when I discovered the plaque. I had no idea it was there. I had no idea it was there. And that’s when I discovered it and then I think it was on—my roommates and I, we have our own reunions. For about the last five years, we all meet in Evanston and go over there. And I think it was at that first or second one of those when I actually took a picture of it. That’s why I was able to look at the picture and give the inscription verbatim.

 

So, no, unfortunately, I can’t claim any responsibility for its existence, but I was certainly very, very pleased to see it there and to have it commemorating what I would consider to be kind of sacred ground. You know, Kate, the following two years, with regard to politics, were uneventful. I was busy studying and being with my friends and pursuing my girlfriend until she was willing to become my wife. That took a lot of energy. That was one of my major occupations at the time, I must say. That was a long pursuit. 

 

[Interviewer]: Well, I’m glad it was successful.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Yes, I was very determined. I was very determined.

 

[Interviewer]: So, life went on on your campus and with your friends?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: It did. It went on. I hate to say, as if, kind of, nothing much had changed or nothing much had happened. But it was, I have to say, life back to normal, except that the wrought iron fences did not go back up. They did not replace the wrought iron fences.

 

[Interviewer]: The university did not reinstall them.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: The university did not put them back. Very interesting.

 

[Interviewer]: Yeah, that is interesting. For those of us who don’t know the layout of that campus or the dynamic between campus and the city, you said they were pulled out and piled up as a barricade on Sheridan Road? What was the purpose or function of that?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: So, if you’re in Chicago, and you’re coming up along the lake on Lakeshore Drive, it’s kind of the main drag that if you were coming north to all of the beautiful northern suburbs of Chicago, which is, they’re just gorgeous. So, you’re driving along the lake, and Lakeshore Drive kind of becomes Sheridan Road. And, as you’re driving along the lake, you come to a sharp left turn in Sheridan Road and that is the actual beginning of Northwestern’s campus. You’ve crossed over from Chicago into Evanston, and you make a hard left, and you’re riding along, kind of, if you think of the campus as a giant rectangle running down Sheridan Road, you’re at the narrow north side of the rectangle. And you’re coming up alongside the short edge of North Campus, and you come to a traffic light, and that’s where Chicago Avenue meets and becomes Sheridan Road. So, you make a right at that light, and right at that corner, Kate, was where the student union was and where all the students would tend to gather.

 

I mean, I say Student Union, it’s nothing like what comes to your mind about a student union. It was an old hall with a crummy cafeteria and maybe a ping-pong table. It was not much of a student union. But that’s where a lot of the student meetings took place and in the adjacent auditorium. It was kind of considered the gateway to the campus and so, this wide, four-lane street, two lanes each way, which if you continued north, made that right turn at Scott Hall, the student union, and continued north—you’d be riding into the lovely northern suburbs of Chicago: Wilmette, Winnetka, Deerfield, beautiful suburbs up there, wealthy suburbs up there.

 

And so, it was right at that corner where we set up the barricades. Really, dramatically, blocking traffic. They allowed them to stay for several days. And then, as things started to quiet down at the end of the year, one morning—people were quote, “guarding them” and “manning them”—but I think there was just one early morning set of hours where there was nobody there and the university quietly took it down and just moved it all somewhere else. They did not, like I said, they never put back the wrought  iron fences along Sheridan Road. There was no confrontation. 

 

[Interviewer]: At that barricade, while it was up, were there continuous protests going on during the day?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: It was nonstop. It was night and day. We would be actually, kind of, taking turns standing guard, if you will. That was where people would congregate and organize and protest and make our voices heard. I think, at some point, the barricade was lessened in size. I think maybe traffic was able to go in one lane. I mean, I have distinct memories of harassing drivers, telling them to beep their horn to support protesting the war. Some people would and some people would give you the finger. But like I said, I was too angry to be scared.

 

[Interviewer]: Thanks for painting that picture for me, for us, I really appreciate it.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Sure, it’s the most I’ve ever talked about it. Seriously, it’s a good experience for me. I appreciate the opportunity, Kate.

 

[Interviewer]: Good, I’m glad. [00:42:59] I think at this point, I’ve run out of questions and I would just ask, before we close, if there’s anything else you wanted to talk about that we haven’t covered?

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Well, you know, I was thinking about this. I’m pretty sure both of Bill’s parents are gone. I don’t believe they’re alive. I think his mom was like a little older. I think she might have been ninety at the 40^th celebration when she spoke. I saw that on the program. Bill had an older sister, Nancy Schroeder, and I don’t know how extensively the Task Force keeps track of the families and where they are and what they’re doing. I haven’t sought her out. She would probably remember my name. She was a couple years older. My brother was three years older, I think Nancy was two years older than us. I don’t know if she’d remember my brother Ed, or might remember my name. But I guess, as his sister, if there was any way for her to just know how much Bill is in my thoughts. That would be nice if Nancy could know that.

 

[Interviewer]: I know there are people on campus who are in touch with her, so yeah, definitely.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: And I would love for her, if it wasn’t too painful, for her to hear our interview.

 

[Interviewer]: No, that’s a great idea. Okay.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Okay. Thank you.

 

[Interviewer]: Thank you. So, I’ll just close there by thanking you again, Jeffrey, for all your time, sharing your time with us, and for sharing all of these memories. I really appreciate it.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Thank you.

 

[Interviewer]: It’s a huge contribution to the Oral History Project. Thank you very much.

 

[Jeffrey Fine]: Well, thanks for the opportunity, Kate.

 

[Interviewer]: You’re welcome.

 

[End of interview]

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