Betty Hejma-Sweet, Oral History

 

Recorded: November 17, 2019

Interviewed by Will Underwood

Transcribed by the Kent State University Research & Evaluation Bureau

 

 

[Interviewer]: This is Will Underwood, speaking on Sunday, November 17, 2019, in Kent, Ohio, as part of the May 4 Kent State Shootings Oral History Project. Could you please state your name for the recording?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Betty Hejma-Sweet.

 

[Interviewer]: Great. Thanks, Betty. So, could you please begin with a little brief information about your background so we can get to know you a little better? Like where you were born and where you grew up? How you came to live in Kent?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: I was born in Cleveland, Ohio, May 4, 1934. Lived in Garfield Heights. Graduated high school there. Went to college at Ohio U. Finished and came back home in 1956, and I met George Hejma, and we got engaged and married in June 29, 1957. We came to Kent, he was on the GI Bill, he finished in three years here. He had been at Fenn College in Cleveland when I met him, and he decided to quit his job and come here to Kent full time. He went summers and all the winter semesters. Finished up in three years. Graduated in 1960. And we had our family here.

 

[Interviewer]: When did you move to this address?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Moved, we lived in rent in 1957, moved here in August 1 of 1960.

 

[Interviewer]: Okay, so where were you living, so while you were living here, so in, you were living here in 1970, what was your—were you working at the time?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Yes, I was. I was working in downtown Kent for oral surgeons. I didn’t work raising my children, but both kids were in school at this point in time. And, so Friday, well, I had a five-year old and a ten-year old. And, Friday, May, let’s see, Saturday, May 2nd, Sunday, 3rd, 4th, okay. Well, maybe I’m getting ahead of—

 

[Interviewer]: No, that’s fine. So, it has—

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: So, I had my family here.

 

[Interviewer]: Yeah, okay.

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Kids were born while we were here in Kent.

 

[Interviewer]: Yeah. So, what was your age in May 1970?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Let’s see, thirty-four-

 

[Interviewer]: Okay.

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: What, no. That’s when I was born.

 

[Interviewer]: Oh, yeah.

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: So, I was, twenty, no, I was in my thirties. Yeah. Thirty-six, thirty-seven. Was that right?

 

[Interviewer]: That’s all right, anyway you gave—

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Thirty-eight, somewhere in there.

 

[Interviewer]: You gave us your birthdate, so we can do the math.

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Yeah, yeah, 1934.

 

[Interviewer]: So, prior to May 4, 1970, what was your perception of the students at KSU and the protests that had been taking place during that time?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: You’re asking what I was thinking when this was going on? Well, actually, I was—had I been their age, I’d probably have been protesting because I’ve been through some wars. Korean War, shouldn’t have been there. Vietnam War, shouldn’t have been there. So, yeah, I was kind of against this. George, on the other hand, very patriotic. He was in the Korean conflict. So, we kind of had different ideas about war, I guess. He was a very patriotic person, both brothers were in the second World War in the Navy. So, he was influenced a lot, I think, by older brothers. He was about eleven at the time when his brothers were drafted.

 

[Interviewer]: Did it come up at all, between you and George? The protests or the war? Was it talked about at home?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: After it happened, yes.

 

[Interviewer]: After it happened, but leading up to it?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Yeah, but leading up to it, no. No, we were busy raising young children and involved in city activities, you know, civic activities, and I was working, and he was working in Cleveland.

 

[doorbell rings]

 

[Interviewer]: I’m pausing this.

 

[recording pauses and resumes]

 

[Interviewer]: [00:05:39] Okay, so we’re going to, that was a pause in our Sunday, November 19, 2019, interview with Betty Hejma-Sweet, so we were talking. Anyway, go ahead Betty, carry on where you—we  were talking about the student protests and so forth.

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Yeah. We, George and I kind of disagreed on that, but we didn’t discuss it any further. The kids were young and we were, you know, maybe not talking as much to children that age about what was going on.

 

[Interviewer]: So, before the May 4, 1970, shootings, how would you describe the relationship with the campus, the students, and the Kent community? This is before the shootings.

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: I think the Kent community, or people I had talked with, people were either for the kids protesting peacefully. There was no middle ground on this. People were either against this and there wasn’t much town-and-gown connection in those years. That hadn’t, that hadn’t gelled. I think maybe after the May 4 shootings, the town and the university grew closer, continually until now. I’ve seen such a change.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:07:45] So, can you tell us a little bit about, or do you have any memories you’d like to share from the days prior to and the weekend of the shootings?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Well, May 2, that was a Saturday, the protests, or the rabble rousers, whoever they were, I don’t know that—I’m not clear on whether they were students or not, but I think people, from what I understood, there were people sent in and they got the protesters—they rallied them and they gathered on campus. And it led to the ROTC Building being burned down. And the reason it burned down is they were cutting fire hoses, so they were, and we were a small fire department. Other fire departments had to come in. Same with our police force, we were—it was inadequate to handle, the Kent Police and the Kent State Police were not working together at that time. They are now.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:09:13] What was that like for you as a community member and as a mother of young kids? Knowing that this unrest was occurring?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Well, we were on the west side of Kent and I was glad about that, but it was still our city, and I was very concerned. My girlfriend called, she said, “I have four children, we’re leaving town. We’re going to go some—we’re going out of the town, out of the city.” She said, “Do you want to come?” And I said, “No, I’m going to stay put.” But she lived on Vine, off of Summit Street. So, she was close. So, friends that were closer to what was going on, University Heights and that area, were a little more upset maybe than I was, because they were closer to what was happening.

 

When they moved into town, after they burned the ROTC Building, I was—had gone to work Saturday morning, and that was before they burned the ROTC Building down. It was a Quonset hut, Quonset-type buildings, wooden structure buildings, we had several on campus. We had one on Summit Street, Larry Golding has his lab in there. They were worried about that that was going to go. That was being protected. But prior to that, Saturday morning, I had gone in to work a half a day. We closed up at twelve o’clock and, later that afternoon, our front door of the professional building, it’s where all the doctors had their offices there on North Water Street, the door was broken, Molotov cocktail was thrown in, and our whole lobby burned before the fire department got in there. And then they realized we are right next door to the feed mill. And it was operating then. And that’s a complete wooden structure, wooden floors. And they were really worried about that. So that’s when more fire departments came in to help the Kent department, because they weren’t able—

 

[Interviewer]: And this was on Saturday?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: This was Saturday, after the ROTC Building burned. They started downtown. Or it was a separate group. You know, I’m not entirely sure.

 

[Interviewer]: Right.

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Protests were going on in town, they were going on on Blanket Hill, on the campus, ROTC Building. And people were—the students were really riled up. So, Saturday, I’m not sure about Saturday, what happened that evening. I don’t have any recollection of that.

 

[Interviewer]: So you, obviously, would have left work, I mean—

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Well, we left at twelve, not knowing that this was coming into town. But one of the surgeons lived on the west side here, and he got a call that his building was—and he owned the building. And we had that incident, so, obviously we weren’t coming into work. We cancelled patients on Monday until we got this mess cleaned up. But, in the meantime, we had—the shootings were Monday at noon, weren’t they, or one o’clock?

 

[Interviewer]: I don’t know the exact time, I’m sorry. I should know that, but I don’t. [00:13:23] What do you remember about the arrival of the National Guard in town?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: That was frightening. I don’t know if we had helicopters—the president of the university called our Governor. Our Governor brought in the National Guard, I believe it was after the shootings. And see, I’m not sure. I can’t, I really can’t remember that, when they arrived. But that was a scary situation. That was hard to explain to young children. Helicopters flying over low, with searchlights. And that went on all night.

 

[Interviewer]: Do you remember what it—

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: And that was—

 

[Interviewer]: —you said you didn’t know what day that was, so, but anyway—

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Well, I think that was Monday night, the 4th, after the shootings, because May 4th is my birthday, and we always went to a restaurant in Akron. And George said, “Well, you know, I came home early on Friday,” and he got right into the city. He had two people that he was, they were carpooling to Cleveland, and he said, “I’m going to come home early.” And so, he came Friday, came in through Brady Lake, he got the one person off of Horning Road, he lived there, he got him in, nobody stopped him, he came over to Crane Avenue, dropped off his other friend, and they worked at the telephone company up in Cleveland, and he came on home. And that was on Friday.

 

And so on Monday, he said, “Well, we have reservations. It’s your birthday, and we’ll just see. We got a babysitter, and we’ll see if we can get out of town.” So, we went out River Road, and of course we were stopped, asked where we were going and George explained it to him and he said, “Well, you have to leave the registration of your car with me.” And he said, “And you have to be back here by eleven o’clock, that’s curfew. And you have to check with me.”

 

[Interviewer]: Do you remember whether that was local law enforcement or was it National Guard? Does that—can you recall?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Those are National Guard people, yeah. And that’s when all this—helicopters were flying. Not so much over to the west side of Kent, but we did have some, but not like the east side. I had friends that those helicopters kept the family up all night. Flying, and with the searchlights, through their backyards and, and so I did hear about that from friends that lived over there at the time.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:16:41] Did you see any military vehicles in town when you were leaving town on Monday, that evening? Or, other than the checkpoint that stopped you?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: George saw military vehicles parked at Walls School. Tanks of some sort. I did not. But he reported that to me. And then, my second husband was a photojournalist for—Richard Sweet—for the Record Courier, and he covered, he was covering this with the editor, Loris Troyer, at the time, this whole weekend. I don’t know if you want more detail about that?

 

[Interviewer]: Well, it’s really, this is mainly we’re interested in your recollections and your personal experience of it.

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Yeah, and I learned this after I married him in ’94.

 

[Interviewer]: Right, right. Not that that’s not relevant, but—

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Where he, you know, how he felt about—he was scared to death. Yeah, he was following the Guard down the hill and made a decision with Loris to get up on the balcony of Taylor [Hall] and do the rest of the photo shooting from there, that they were doing that day. Or he could have been a casualty—they could have been casualties, because shortly after that, just three or four minutes after that, they did a retreat and that’s when the firing happened.

 

[Interviewer]: Yeah. Do you remember, well you mentioned a little bit about, you know, talking to your friends that lived on the east side, do you remember any of those conversations, what, anything else you want to say about conversations with family or friends at that time?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: It was mostly—

 

[Interviewer]: Or neighbors.

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: No, you know, I, we’d lived here ten years at that point and I don’t recall conversations with neighbors or, just with my one friend, Vi, that lived on Vine Street off of Summit, and asking me if I wanted to leave town.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:19:16] How did you hear about the actual events? Do you recollect how you learned about the shootings?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Yes, my kids went to school Monday morning, down at Longcoy, and I went grocery shopping about the time that the shootings happened. So, I was in Stow at the Acme, and one of the teachers was in the grocery store. And I said to her, “Oh, is school out early today?” She said, “Oh, you don’t know?” I said, “Know what?” And she, Mrs. Varney was the teacher that told me, you know, “The kids have been released for school, we’re all, all the schools are closed. There’s,” and she told me about the shootings. So, I had a car full of groceries and I’m trying to get back into Kent the same way on Monroe Falls Road, and there they stopped me, and they actually, and I don’t know if that was National Guard or Kent Police, or police from Stow for that matter, because we didn’t have that kind of a police force at the time. And they escorted me to my driveway.

 

Let me back in with, they saw the groceries. I told them that I had met a teacher and I had two children, probably sitting on my front porch. And so, they followed me home, escorted me home. And just a couple of blocks.

 

[Interviewer]: And when you got home, were—

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Both kids were sitting there. And, you know, “How come you’re not home, mom?” I said, “I didn’t know what happened.” And they were scared, they were frightened.

 

[Interviewer]: Yeah.

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Yeah.

 

[Interviewer]: Man. What did you say to them? Do you remember what you discussed?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: No. No, I just gave them hugs and I did try to distract them with food, I guess.  Stuff, because they were always interested in what I bought. You know, they were five and ten, or eleven.

 

[Interviewer]: [00:21:52] So what were the days and weeks like, for you, after the shootings happened?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: As I recall, we didn’t have school that week. And also, I didn’t go back to work because our building had to be--our hallway had to be repaired. That was our only entrance, off the street. So, I was home here with the kids, and I don’t have a lot of recollection of, you know, we had a yard, it had swings and sandbox, and so the kids from the neighborhood all came here to play, and so that’s probably what went on. But I don’t recall.

 

[Interviewer]: Do you remember how long school was out? How long did the kids, was it just for the day, or—?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: I think it was for the week.

 

[Interviewer]: For the week.

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: I’m not real clear on that, but this was so disruptive.

 

And we were under martial law here. And I think maybe it lasted that whole week. George had trouble then getting in and picking up his worker—coworkers, in the city, because he was going to Cleveland. But he was able to leave on Tuesday. So, he went back to work, but he was up in Cleveland.

 

[Interviewer]: Yeah. Of course, you probably didn’t go back to work.

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: I didn’t go back to work.

 

[Interviewer]: The building’s—

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Because I was home with the kids and we had a issue with, we cancelled patients.

 

[Interviewer]: Yeah, wow. [00:24:01] So is there anything else you want to say about that time that we haven’t covered yet?

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: No, I think that pretty much sums it up. It was a—it’s something you don’t forget. My kids didn’t talk much about that, maybe they were too young. We—I don’t know that we discussed it much, I don’t have a lot of recollection of the conversations afterwards, that week, you know. Years on, we discussed it more, but. Always wondering where this first—what set this off, because the commander of the National Guard was a decorated person from previous wars and he actually called the cease fire and was known to take rifles out of students’ hands. That was reported.

 

[Interviewer]: Okay.

 

[doorbell rings]

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: So, I’d like to see the, I’d like to see the National Guard person step forward that maybe knew more about what was going on, but no one has.

 

[Interviewer]: Yeah. Well thanks, Betty. I’m going to pause this, and then—

 

[Betty Hejma-Sweet]: Okay.

 

[doorbell rings]

 

[end of interview]

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